Hatsune Miku: Project Diva Extend

[vnctdj]

The problem with this game is the input lag, can you confirm that this problem is solved ?

[cybercjt]

yea that tho not really a big deal to some of the users like me tho.. I can play extreme mode perfectly fine on some songs

(09-17-2014 03:37 PM)bezgreshnia Wrote:  I don't understand why this game along with 2nd is in "In-game". They act exactly like in PSP if you use the native resolution. Upscaling them cause frame jerkiness even if you have high pc specs which makes the game hard to play. Some of you may already noticed that. The input lag can be fixed by setting "Maximum Pre-Rendered Frames" to 1 in NVIDIA Control Panel .

also this guys he's right...

[vnctdj]

OK, let's move these threads then

---

Moved.

[cybercjt]

(12-28-2014 02:03 PM)vnctdj Wrote:  OK, let's move these threads then

---

Moved.

oh not expecting that I kinda agree on you too because lot of users are having a prob. with that input lag.. tho actually not a big deal it's still playable... Nice

[GamerzHell9137]

Negative. Should be moved back to In-Game.
Rhythm games need to have perfect accuracy and the emulation of Project Diva games isn't like on the PSP.

[vnctdj]

Moved back, then...

[cybercjt]

(12-28-2014 06:30 PM)GamerzHell9137 Wrote:  Negative. Should be moved back to In-Game.
Rhythm games need to have perfect accuracy and the emulation of Project Diva games isn't like on the PSP.

there you go

[LunaMoo]

I think keeping those PD games "in-game" is kind of pointless and doesn't do any good. Many people are lazy to even try games which they see aren't "playable" yet, which narrows the new people testing it and by now @GamerzHell9137 might as well be alone with having this problem vs many people without it. :]

Most of us doesn't suffer from it and it's pretty much surely system dependant as people who had it and fixed it by changing stuff in their system proved, it also depends on settings alot, texture scaling is obvious killer, you can't use it at all because it messes up the timings all the way, rendering res does it's share as well even on powerfull systems althrough it's more constant keeping same timings, so you can get used to it.
Ultimately if you want a trully exact psp experience in a way that nobody can even measure, the only choice is to play on the real thing. Aside from actual delays and stuff which maybe some people trully suffers from, different controller and screen size by itself messes up with our brain and requires a while to get used to so it will never be possible to get exact same experience and that does not mean it's a broken game.

But blah, like really, we have to remember forum status is just an info for new people, it's not like those who play it without problems should care, but those games have their issues on git and that could be enough to stop this confusion and moving around.

Anyway an extra happy new year for all Hatsune Miku fans;3 - that's the line which matters most in this post.
Edit: FapFap link - literally ;o.

[cybercjt]

(12-29-2014 06:05 AM)LunaMoo Wrote:  I think keeping those PD games "in-game" is kind of pointless and doesn't do any good. Many people are lazy to even try games which they see aren't "playable" yet, which narrows the new people testing it and by now @GamerzHell9137 might as well be alone with having this problem vs many people without it. :]

Most of us doesn't suffer from it and it's pretty much surely system dependant as people who had it and fixed it by changing stuff in their system proved, it also depends on settings alot, texture scaling is obvious killer, you can't use it at all because it messes up the timings all the way, rendering res does it's share as well even on powerfull systems althrough it's more constant keeping same timings, so you can get used to it.
Ultimately if you want a trully exact psp experience in a way that nobody can even measure, the only choice is to play on the real thing. Aside from actual delays and stuff which maybe some people trully suffers from, different controller and screen size by itself messes up with our brain and requires a while to get used to so it will never be possible to get exact same experience and that does not mean it's a broken game.

But blah, like really, we have to remember forum status is just an info for new people, it's not like those who play it without problems should care, but those games have their issues on git and that could be enough to stop this confusion and moving around.

Anyway an extra happy new year for all Hatsune Miku fans;3 - that's the line which matters most in this post.
Edit: FapFap link - literally ;o.

totally agree with this.. its perfectly playable.. the current probs. like that input lag ppl experiencing are not really a big deal, some are affected by it.. some are not.

[GamerzHell9137]

I doubt that the state the game is in is gonna change someone's opinion about trying out the game. If people want to play a game then they will, and if people find it working/not working they will express themself. If its just a thing about settings then i sure want that someone shows me how to make it " playable ". Have tried to set Nvidia's maximum pre-rendered frames to 1, disabled V-sync, set texture to nearest, non buffered rendering,forced real clock sync and tried the new I/O timing methods. W/e setting i choose the game registers fast input really slow and input in general gets later than you press the button which is annoying. And its not the controllers issue cause i use the same controller on PS3 to play Project Diva F (and its a wired PSOne Dual Shock Controller). The input the game gets is forced and unnatural, it is playable but its not that i would said its " good " or " enough " , that's why i want it In-Game section. We won't see improvement if the devs see the game in playable section cause its thought that the game works with no issues.

[serafin72]

Yes people just dont have psp so they cant compare it and its working "good" for them

[LunaMoo]

I would leave it as it was, but I have to reply to that;].

Well, first of all, as far as those of us who play the game cares, PD can be forever "in-game", just don't make excuses that it's because we don't compare it to PSP. You can't come from a perfect score on small screen surrounded by buttons to a big screen with a gamepad, doesn't matter what quality they are, simply because the experience is different, you'll have to train a bit and forget how you played on one device no device can be and not be PSP at once, and you'll never swap and play on hardest difficulty without training. That happens even when changing pads in ps3 games you mastered and in ppsspp case you change whole device for one with completely different concept and feeling attached to it.

The timing is perfect emulation side already, when I set a breakpoint in the code executed every frame so it only goes 1 frame whenever I press "Go" when I spam a button in my pad and do press "Go", the input is detected and executed that frame, it cannot be faster. Now with setting to force real clock sync I know that I get that next frame while playing the game exactly after the time it should happen, it's not a bit faster nor slower, each and every frame happens in exact time behind previous one. This means the timing between each frame is exact and perfect and that's exactly what many of us experience, in fact even before having this setting, it felt mostly right to me and the whole difference from having it on feels more like a placebo caused by knowing how it works.

If you guys write a software which can detect what kind of delays you say experience, those of us who can play the game we'll be more than happy to test it and prove you wrong. The thing is current arguments are all about "perfect scores on hardest song in hardcore difficulty" and that's as I explained in the start it doesn't work that way. We don't get perfect scores in such games on hardcore just because we have godlike eye-hand cooperation, we do it, because our muscles have memory and we get used to what we do and experience and react without thinking, so no, you can't just swap the device and get same results. Same mechanics work when you learn martial arts, for example if you get hardcore with a long sword, and then you change to saber - even if the lenght will be same and balance point will be similar, even through both of them are great for cutting and can be thrusted, even if you pick ones of exactly same way, you will still suck ass when sparring with someone hardcore at it without training from the start simply because it's a different weapon.

IMO If we keep this forever "in-game" just because repeated arguments without actual proof like currently, we should do same for all other games which has a timer or score, because some people might also suffer when constantly swapping between the psp and ppsspp and we should not keep their favourite games as playable until that get's solved(aka never). I'm not even going to reply to argument that devs wouldn't try fixing it when it would be made "playable" it's just too silly.

I just don't like discrimination, even when it happens to just a small part of one of my hobbies.
That's all I wanted to add on that topic, so happy "forever-in-game" to this and other PD thread, not gonna argue more about that nor visit it, since like I started, those of us who play the game without the issue don't actually care about the status itself, the whole argues are about justice and the fact that many people never play games which are not "playable" because yes, people ARE lazy. That is easily proved by checking how many threads we have of people asking if the game is playable, even if they could as easily check it themselves, might be stupid or illogical, but yes it's common in the net:3.

[[Unknown]]

Just a few things:

The PSP actually does support sampling input faster than once per frame. I believe the PSP can sample as frequently as once every 5.555 milliseconds, or in other words about 180 times per second. Most phones, laptops, tablets, desktops, and controllers are simply not capable of reporting at this frequency from my experience. The PSP is a carefully crafted gaming device, so this shouldn't be shocking. PCs are not better in *every* way than consoles, despite what some may say.

In PPSSPP we try to poll controllers 250 times per second on Windows (my tests of my controller have shown that my controller reports old, stale results for most of those 250 polls.) For mouse, keyboard input, and Android, we take whatever we can get (in these cases, we use apis that tell us "immediately" when a keypress happens, but unfortunately the actual lag may vary wildly by device.)

However, *this* game (or at least a demo in the series) only samples once every 60 seconds, the default frequency. So I'd like to make a note, please read it:

This game does not even utilize the maximum capabilities of the PSP, as far as input latency.

In fact, you could add a hack to the game to make the input lower latency. We RESPECT the game's latency requests, and so you CANNOT get better latency than 16.66 milliseconds in this game. That's the latency it requests and has on the PSP, and so that's the latency we emulate.

Just to make sure it's super clear: even if you have awesome hardware and can get great latency on input, this game DOES NOT SUPPORT IT. It requires a rom hack to make it support better latency than 60Hz. You might even try this and see if it makes your latency concerns better. I'm not sure if it would affect the game's timing though (it could.) This is just how Project Diva is programmed. It's how it works on a PSP, whether you like it or not.

As far as this bug, it's a ghost. There's absolutely no proof that it doesn't exist or does, and there seems to be no way to prove that it does exist or doesn't. The only argument that it doesn't work is "I find it easier to get a better score on a PSP, I think." That's the scientific equivalent of, "this pill makes me feel less hungry, I think."

I doubt it will EVER be fixed, because such a bug is basically unfixable. Programming is a beautiful art, but it's also a science. Emotions can't be plugged into programs, and they can't be debugged. When all our tests on real hardware pass just fine, we're left with nothing else. Maybe the tests aren't good enough, but we don't know how to make them better. If you want this bug fixed, your best bet is to try to find a way to prove the problem with a test.

Otherwise, I say hear, hear to LunaMoo's post. He makes many great points.

-[Unknown]

[cybercjt]

So there it is... That explains it all. It's not really a bug after all it's just how the game input latency was programmed and how it works on Actual PSP or PPSSPP. So I guess its safe to say this should be moved to Playable? or just remain in-game

[vnctdj]

So I will move these Project Diva games to "Playable".

---

Moved.