forums.PPSSPP.org
Why PPSSPP runs fast on decent hardware meanwhile other PSP emus are slow? - Printable Version

+- forums.PPSSPP.org (https://forums.ppsspp.org)
+-- Forum: PPSSPP - Playstation Portable Simulator Suitable for Playing Portably (/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: General Discussion and Announcements (/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Thread: Why PPSSPP runs fast on decent hardware meanwhile other PSP emus are slow? (/showthread.php?tid=4457)



Why PPSSPP runs fast on decent hardware meanwhile other PSP emus are slow? - amirzaim - 06-30-2013 06:12 AM

Before I'm using the great PPSSPP emulator, I'm had been tried other previous emulators like jpcsp and pcsp, but it gives poor performance and very slow on my PC with decent hardware specs. But why when I'm using ppsspp, it gets a full fps in most games that I've played?

My PC specs:

1GB RAM
Intel Pentium Dual-Core E5200 2.5Ghz
Nvidia GeForce 8400GS 256MB

*I'm think that my spec is likely the minimum requirement ones, except for some games like Gran Turismo.


RE: Why PPSSPP runs fast on decent hardware meanwhile other PSP emus are slow? - solarmystic - 06-30-2013 06:14 AM

(06-30-2013 06:12 AM)amirzaim Wrote:  Before I'm using the great PPSSPP emulator, I'm had been tried other previous emulators like jpcsp and pcsp, but it gives poor performance and very slow on my PC with decent hardware specs. But why when I'm using ppsspp, it gets a full fps in most games that I've played?

My PC specs:

1GB RAM
Intel Pentium Dual-Core E5200 2.5Ghz
Nvidia GeForce 8400GS 256MB

*I'm think that my spec is likely the minimum requirement ones, except for some games like Gran Turismo.

From the PPSSPP.org FAQ page written by Henrik:-

Why is PPSSPP so fast?

You're probably a Windows user. Because x86 CPUs are damn fast, PC GPU drivers are good, we have a fairly advanced x86 JIT, it's written in C++ and I rock.


RE: Why PPSSPP runs fast on decent hardware meanwhile other PSP emus are slow? - DragonNeos - 06-30-2013 06:55 PM

(06-30-2013 07:14 AM)Nezarn Wrote:  jpcsp is slow because of java.
If you're going to give a response to his question, you should also explain why PCSP is also slow despite using the same programming language (C++) in a unbiased manner.


RE: Why PPSSPP runs fast on decent hardware meanwhile other PSP emus are slow? - TheDax - 06-30-2013 07:09 PM

I'll take a guess, since I didn't see it in PCSP's options: It has no JIT/dynamic recompiler, so naturally it would be slower, since it's running an interpeter(however, even interpreters can be faster than JITs, if the JIT is poorly written, which PPSSPP's isn't).


RE: Why PPSSPP runs fast on decent hardware meanwhile other PSP emus are slow? - DragonNeos - 06-30-2013 07:22 PM

I wanted Nezarn to give an answer since his response seemed like a typical wise-guy answer like "Since a program is coded in Java, it's obviously going to be slow..." If people are going to respond to questions like this, at least give evidence and details. A response like Nezarn's implies a lack of knowledge and may lead to others being misinformed about JPCSP/Java.


RE: Why PPSSPP runs fast on decent hardware meanwhile other PSP emus are slow? - Henrik - 06-30-2013 07:25 PM

PPSSPP has a slow-ish interpreter but a highly optimized JIT/dynarec for x86/x64 (the ARM one still needs a lot of work). It's really the key to speed. Also, I think that PPSSPP's OpenGL management code is better than what I've seen in other PSP emus, that probably makes a difference too.


RE: Why PPSSPP runs fast on decent hardware meanwhile other PSP emus are slow? - DragonNeos - 06-30-2013 08:05 PM

Anyone can link to a Wikipedia article and read about programming language performance and it is notoriously known that C++ is faster than Java. However, one should never truly rely on Wikipedia to spoonfeed you information and again you do not explain why Java is slow. If you had said that Java is slower than other programming languages because it has to load its own virtual machine (forcing more memory usage), needs all class libraries to be loaded first unlike other languages, etc. such an answer would have sufficed.

The way you phrase things makes it sound like any developer/programmer should never want to use Java or any other programming language and should just stick to using C or its variants.


RE: Why PPSSPP runs fast on decent hardware meanwhile other PSP emus are slow? - Nezarn - 06-30-2013 09:35 PM

(06-30-2013 08:05 PM)DragonNeos Wrote:  Anyone can link to a Wikipedia article and read about programming language performance and it is notoriously known that C++ is faster than Java. However, one should never truly rely on Wikipedia to spoonfeed you information and again you do not explain why Java is slow. If you had said that Java is slower than other programming languages because it has to load its own virtual machine (forcing more memory usage), needs all class libraries to be loaded first unlike other languages, etc. such an answer would have sufficed.

The way you phrase things makes it sound like any developer/programmer should never want to use Java or any other programming language and should just stick to using C or its variants.

I deleted my posts because you dont leave me alone. Are you happy now?


RE: Why PPSSPP runs fast on decent hardware meanwhile other PSP emus are slow? - xZabuzax - 07-01-2013 12:17 AM

Geez Nezarn giving up so soon? i would have loved if DragonNeos responded me like that so i could get in fighting mode a bit. The only thing that stopped me from bashing java in this thread is because i don't want to bring a flamewar in here. But it seems that DragonNeos doesn't mind a bit of a fight, right?

(06-30-2013 06:55 PM)DragonNeos Wrote:  If you're going to give a response to his question, you should also explain why PCSP is also slow despite using the same programming language (C++) in a unbiased manner.

Since the other guys already gave you an answer i believe i don't have to respond to this anymore, but i'll add this bit, PCSP is not as optimized as PPSSPP. Once PCSP gets more optimized you can bet that it will be faster than jpcsp.

(06-30-2013 06:55 PM)DragonNeos Wrote:  I wanted Nezarn to give an answer since his response seemed like a typical wise-guy answer like "Since a program is coded in Java, it's obviously going to be slow..." If people are going to respond to questions like this, at least give evidence and details. A response like Nezarn's implies a lack of knowledge and may lead to others being misinformed about JPCSP/Java.

Again, i would have loved to respond to this but you already responded your own question...

--
(06-30-2013 06:55 PM)DragonNeos Wrote:  If you had said that Java is slower than other programming languages because it has to load its own virtual machine (forcing more memory usage), needs all class libraries to be loaded first unlike other languages, etc. such an answer would have sufficed.
--

(06-30-2013 06:55 PM)DragonNeos Wrote:  The way you phrase things makes it sound like any developer/programmer should never want to use Java or any other programming language and should just stick to using C or its variants.

It is a know fact that java is slow (specially for emulators), it's also a fact that jpcsp is slow because it's coded in java and PPSSPP already proved that a well optimized C/C++ will be faster than jpcsp any day.

If PPSSPP and jpcsp have the same compatibility what emu would you choose? the faster one or the slower one? yeah, that's what i thought.

That's java for you.


RE: Why PPSSPP runs fast on decent hardware meanwhile other PSP emus are slow? - DragonNeos - 07-01-2013 07:22 AM

(07-01-2013 12:17 AM)xZabuzax Wrote:  Geez Nezarn giving up so soon? i would have loved if DragonNeos responded me like that so i could get in fighting mode a bit. The only thing that stopped me from bashing java in this thread is because i don't want to bring a flamewar in here. But it seems that DragonNeos doesn't mind a bit of a fight, right?

(06-30-2013 06:55 PM)DragonNeos Wrote:  If you're going to give a response to his question, you should also explain why PCSP is also slow despite using the same programming language (C++) in a unbiased manner.

Since the other guys already gave you an answer i believe i don't have to respond to this anymore, but i'll add this bit, PCSP is not as optimized as PPSSPP. Once PCSP gets more optimized you can bet that it will be faster than jpcsp.

(06-30-2013 06:55 PM)DragonNeos Wrote:  I wanted Nezarn to give an answer since his response seemed like a typical wise-guy answer like "Since a program is coded in Java, it's obviously going to be slow..." If people are going to respond to questions like this, at least give evidence and details. A response like Nezarn's implies a lack of knowledge and may lead to others being misinformed about JPCSP/Java.

Again, i would have loved to respond to this but you already responded your own question...

--
(06-30-2013 06:55 PM)DragonNeos Wrote:  If you had said that Java is slower than other programming languages because it has to load its own virtual machine (forcing more memory usage), needs all class libraries to be loaded first unlike other languages, etc. such an answer would have sufficed.
--

(06-30-2013 06:55 PM)DragonNeos Wrote:  The way you phrase things makes it sound like any developer/programmer should never want to use Java or any other programming language and should just stick to using C or its variants.

It is a know fact that java is slow (specially for emulators), it's also a fact that jpcsp is slow because it's coded in java and PPSSPP already proved that a well optimized C/C++ will be faster than jpcsp any day.

If PPSSPP and jpcsp have the same compatibility what emu would you choose? the faster one or the slower one? yeah, that's what i thought.

That's java for you.
It seems clear to me that you are the one who wants to bring up stuff after everything has been said and done. However, you seem to be the type that cannot hold a neutral view when it comes to Java. You also say derogatory comments about Java in other threads but then say something like "I don't want to bash Java because I don't want to bring a flamewar in here." My post aims to inform (if you read Nezarn's posts before he deleted it) but you want to nitpick on points.

There are two points that you make I don't quite understand. While Nezarn and I were talking about Java's performance in general from a programming stance and general applications, you bring up the point of emulation which is not related to earlier posts. You also ask about my preference between emulators which is also not related to my previous statements.

There is no point in refuting with you because you will make a point and say "yeah, that's what i thought. That's java for you." As I have stated earlier, there was no intention to attack either C++ or Java but to inform and make statements in an unbiased manner. In relation to my last comment that you quoted, why do other programming languages even exist when you imply that C or its variants can get the job done in a quicker manner?

In a way, this thread should be closed based on the connotation of xZabuzax's post. To Moderators, feel free to close this if you feel it is necessary.


RE: Why PPSSPP runs fast on decent hardware meanwhile other PSP emus are slow? - xZabuzax - 07-01-2013 08:36 AM

(06-30-2013 06:55 PM)DragonNeos Wrote:  It seems clear to me that you are the one who wants to bring up stuff after everything has been said and done. However, you seem to be the type that cannot hold a neutral view when it comes to Java. You also say derogatory comments about Java in other threads but then say something like "I don't want to bash Java because I don't want to bring a flamewar in here."

I don't want to bring a flamewar in this site because i respect PPSSPP developers, i don't mind bashing java in other forums.

(06-30-2013 06:55 PM)DragonNeos Wrote:  My post aims to inform (if you read Nezarn's posts before he deleted it) but you want to nitpick on points.

Oh yeah? it seems to me that you are defending java, not informing. He said that "jpcsp is slow because of java" and that's the truth. It IS slow because of java.

(06-30-2013 06:55 PM)DragonNeos Wrote:  There are two points that you make I don't quite understand. While Nezarn and I were talking about Java's performance in general from a programming stance and general applications, you bring up the point of emulation which is not related to earlier posts. You also ask about my preference between emulators which is also not related to my previous statements.

And again, the op wanted to know why jpcsp was slow and he got his answer, it is slow because of java.

(06-30-2013 06:55 PM)DragonNeos Wrote:  There is no point in refuting with you because you will make a point and say "yeah, that's what i thought. That's java for you." As I have stated earlier, there was no intention to attack either C++ or Java but to inform and make statements in an unbiased manner.

And there's no point in refuting with you either because you're a java fanboy, and what exactly were you informing? you already said that java is slow yourself.

And btw, i'm not even attacking java, i'm informing and making statements and the truth is, jpcsp is slow because of java.

You gonna keep defending java? this is a fight you can't win, PPSSPP proved to be a hell lot faster than jpcsp will ever be, why? because java is slow.

(06-30-2013 06:55 PM)DragonNeos Wrote:  In relation to my last comment that you quoted, why do other programming languages even exist when you imply that C or its variants can get the job done in a quicker manner?

Then i'll tell you this, would you code an emulator in an inferior language like pascal or delphi? of course not, you can do it but that's still a dumb move, i see jpcsp in the same boat, congratulations to the jpcsp team for creating a psp emulator in java but that doesn't change the fact that java is dog slow.

You can program in any language you want but don't try and defend java when you know jpcsp is slow because of it, it makes you sound like a java fanboy.

(06-30-2013 06:55 PM)DragonNeos Wrote:  In a way, this thread should be closed based on the connotation of xZabuzax's post. To Moderators, feel free to close this if you feel it is necessary.

Of course you want this thread to be closed, you don't want any of this.


RE: Why PPSSPP runs fast on decent hardware meanwhile other PSP emus are slow? - vnctdj - 07-01-2013 10:09 AM

Given that a satisfactory answer has been given to the thread owner, I close this thread Smile